The Dominus Project

Dr. Pedraza:
Hello, friends. Welcome back to Holy Habits in the House. My name is Dr.
Brian Pedraza. I am a professor of Theology at FranU, and I am the Director of
the Dominus project. We wanted to put this podcast together because we
believe that sometimes, families think about the formation of their children
and have this tendency to think about classrooms and textbooks. Those things
are important, but really the best and the most important formation happens
right here in the home. So, we are hoping that these episodes can help you, as
you take these things from this home into your home.
I am joined in this mission by my good friend, Father Josh Johnson.
Fr. Josh Johnson:
What is up, Dr. Pedraza, how are you?
Dr. Pedraza:
It is good to see you, my man.
Fr. Josh:
It is always good to see you as well, a blessing. Today we are also joined by
two of my favorite parishioners, Matt and Julie Massey.
Mrs. Massey and I have worked together for this past year. We have taught
confirmation together at Sacred Heart of Jesus. You do Come Lord Jesus Bible
Study with our kids at the school; also, you are on our Home & School Board.
One of my first introductions to Matt, your awesome husband—we had a few
meetings—but one of my first introductions to Matt Massey—and you can
help me unpack this about you right now—was a picture of you on Facebook,
a picture of you, Matt, on a toilet that was in your front yard.  So maybe you
can unpack that whole process.
Matt Massey:
Well, I think the key to a good toilet is convenience, so there is one in the front
yard. No, so the neighbor was doing renovations on their home. Their toilet
was out on the garbage pile. We happened to be out for a walk with our dog
Magnolia. I saw it and said, you know, this would be a funny picture. So, I sat
down, and Julie took the picture!

Fr Josh (to Julie): You are an accomplice!
Julie Massey: Absolutely, I found the newspaper. I mean, you can’t just sit on
a toilet without a newspaper. We figured it would be a little comic relief.
Fr. Josh:
It was one of the best posts and, if we are being honest, some of the best
prayer can happen in the bathroom, especially for families because small kids
will come to the bathroom, they have no boundaries, but as kids get older,
though, they take up all your space. So if you want some alone time, the
bathroom is a place where you can really pray well.
In fact, some of my greatest moments in prayer happen in the bathroom. I
pray every day, in the chapel in the rectory with the Blessed Sacrament. I do
holy hour every day there, but often it is super dry. I sit with the Lord, and I
look at him and He looks at me and it is just that silence, which is fine. Then I
go to the bathroom at some point of the day, like we all do, and when I'm in
the shower or brushing my teeth, that is when an insight in prayer will come.
God speaks to me in those moments, and it's so profound. So do not
compartmentalize your prayer life.  Invite Jesus to every aspect of your life.
He wants to be with you in church on Sunday, He wants to be in your bible
studies, and He wants to be in Chapel and your Rosary groups, but He also is
wherever you are at....Walmart shopping, bathroom taking a shower, with
you in the car singing your songs, He wants to be there.  Jesus Christ, desires
to be a part of every part of our life, including the bathroom, as weird as it is.
Dr. Pedraza:  This is true because in the Incarnation, which means the son of
God became man, He sanctifies everything genuine about a human life. Our
every experience is an opportunity to encounter God.
Dr. Pedraza:
For this episode, we wanted to talk about prayer.   This is towards the
beginning of the season and a lot of parents are thinking about their mission
of faith formation in the home.  We don't want people to think about faith
formation like, “Father Josh, give me the textbook they use in PSR” and now I
am going to sit down at the dinner table, and be the teacher, instructing my
kids.  Christianity, in the New Testament, was called the Way. The Doctrines
of our faith are important: we WANT people to know the word of God. We
want people to know the teachings of the church. But all of this has really got

to take on flesh in the life of our family.  If parents and caregivers are going to
do that—and we know there are many different kinds of families trying to
hand on the faith to their children—if families are going to pass on the faith,
the number one thing must be prayer, because WE do not change hearts.
When I am teaching at the university, on the first day of my evangelization
catechesis class, I let my students know that we cannot do this by our own
power. But the Lord CAN!  This knowledge should drive you to your knees.
You have to pray in a way that the Lord can work through you.
Dr. Pedraza (cont):
We wanted to invite you, Julie and Matt, to the show, to talk about what comes
first, and what comes first is prayer. What is prayer life like for you as a
married couple, and then how does that flow into your children's prayer as a
family?
Matt Massey:  
You know, it is a big answer and honestly, it has looked different from before
we met, to when we met, to now 26 years later. Our prayer has changed and
has evolved. It has been good, and it has been a struggle. Prayer is a habit,
you know; prayer is a muscle. I have a well-rounded ecumenical background.
Mom was Baptist, Dad Methodist, I was raised Baptist, baptized Baptist,
attended Lutheran Elementary School, Catholic high school, but did not
become Catholic until I met Jules at Mississippi State University. I had a very
well-rounded background from a prayer standpoint because everybody prays
differently. As I became Catholic and went through RCIA and learned the
traditions and the structure and the value in those, I was able to couple that
with that unstructured, passionate part of being raised Baptist.
We were lucky because when we met, I had just become a part of the Catholic
Student Association at Mississippi State, and Julie was graduated and
decided to stay a full year and volunteer at the church. Had she not done that
we would not have met. God works in mysterious ways!
Julie Massey:
I was raised cradle Catholic, so I had structured prayer habits that my parents
instilled in me, like going to mass, praying the rosary, and daily prayer. I like
to pray a lot by writing in my prayer journal. Together, we are the perfect

combination because he had that good off the cusp prayer, and I would come
in with the rote prayers. You have to have both.
Fr. Josh:
It is a nice balance. Whenever one person starts with the Lord’s prayer, then
the next person does spontaneous prayer, then you wrap it up with a Hail
Mary or Glory Be. You are mixing both the rote with the spontaneous prayer.
Julie Massey:
Matt went through RCIA the whole time we were engaged, and he would
come to me and ask questions about the Catholic Church. It forced me, being
a cradle Catholic, to search for those answers. I just believed some things and
didn't realize that I needed to go deeper than that. So, our prayer life and
going to mass were always important to us.
Dr. Pedraza:
When you got married how often did you pray together—not just separately
but as a married couple?
Matt Massey:
I would say daily. Even now it is daily, in the morning or it could be at night. I
will tell you there are a lot of text messages. Remember Jesus is my home boy,
I always know He's going to come through, even If it's not in that moment
there must be a reason. Maybe it will be tomorrow, next week, next year.
Recently, Julie was flying out to a graduation in Dallas and Julie can tell the
story, it is funny, but I think it'll explain how I think about prayer. When we
say “Amen,” it is not necessarily the end of a prayer. It's almost like I am
saying I am going to call you back. Prayer is always going on in my head,
through all experiences.
Julie Massey:
That is one thing he is good at. Matt’s prayer is all day and that is what we try
to instill in our kids, too. It's not just between 7-8 pm or on Sundays. Really,
your whole life needs to be a prayer.
Fr. Josh:

The Catechism even encourages us in that God wants to be with us in a
continuous dialogue all day. We have those specific moments where we set
aside time for intentionality with the Lord. He unpacks that, not only the rest
of the day but the rest of our lives. There are times when I have sat down with
the Lord, like on a Monday in January, and shared my heart with Jesus about
something. Then in April on a Wednesday afternoon, when I am talking to
Julie Massey preparing for class and I hear God speak to me, picking back up
that one conversation that began in January. He is keeping that conversation
going, not in scripture, but through my friend who I am having conversation
with. The Lord is always trying to be in dialogue with us, and we need to be
attentive to his voice and that dialogue that is ongoing throughout the day.  A
dialogue that continues throughout relationships and ministry, while we are
awake while we are asleep. Nonstop.
Julie Massey:
Well, I tend to be overwhelmed, and I want things to be perfect. So that
particular day Matt’s talking about—I was flying to Dallas and when I tell you:
everything that could go wrong was going wrong. Matt could see in my text
messages that I was getting stressed, and he just kept encouraging me. I had
this one situation where I was in the back of the security line and my flight
was leaving in 30 minutes. I had no idea how I was going to make it, and then
this person, unexpected, who was in the security line said, “Ma’am, ma'am,
come here!” And they just put me right through. Because Matt had been
texting me, I could see that an angel had just put me right through. His
constant text messages or encouragement are reminders that even when
things are going wrong, there is also something going right.
Dr. Pedraza:
We are really supposed to be everyday mystics. Even though somebody will
hear that and think, I am not at the heights of that sort of thing. Prayer is the
foundation, and what I hear from you both is that you had your own personal
prayer lives, spending concerted time with the Lord, and that is overflowing
into the other parts of your life. It overflows into when you are hurried at the
airport, it is overflowing to when you see your neighbor's toilet in the front
yard. (laughter)
When it comes to praying together as a couple, I know there are going to be
some people who think that praying with my wife or praying with my husband
is super awkward.   Most people are used to the riches of the Church’s

traditional prayer and will say an Our Father. How about them?  Matt, you are
great at freestyle prayer. Because of the way that you were raised, you can
speak freely from the heart. When couples are sitting down, planning to pray
together, but feeling awkward, what advice would you give them?
Matt Massey:
Sure, I would say that prayer, for us, has been a stronger habit at various
times, but it has been a habit that we remind ourselves that we need to do.
The key is to understand that there will be an up and down. There are better
and worse moments in prayer life, and we need to be our spouse's strength to
pull them back in. I can give you an example from eight or nine years ago. Our
oldest was twelve and we were getting ready to move to Baton Rouge. We
were being transferred here, and my ACTS retreat was coming up and I
thought, “I can't go.” I had a business review going on, I had to get documents
together and presentations and it was all coming down to this moment. I
called and I told my sponsor, “I can’t make it.”
I remember Julie stopping and praying with me, to give me peace, to be able
to quiet my mind to go and then, unexpectedly, my supervisor calls from work
and says, “Hey, do not worry about all this stuff. Go.” So, I get to the retreat,
take a breath, and one of the beautiful parts of that retreat was the encounter
I had with the rosary. After coming back home, the rosary was something that
we were able to introduce on a more regular basis to our prayer life and to our
family.
Every day, in the morning, Julie will have a cup of coffee, writing in her prayer
journal, and she is having her moment. I can sit across from her and have a
cup of coffee, and then we will stop and say a prayer together. There have
been formal parts, the rosary, but then those informal parts, like in the
mornings or a text message, right? I can remember when you were at the
airport—I said to Julie, “Hey, let somebody bless you.” Just watch for it, and it
happens. So, whether it's the rosary, whether it is that morning prayer,
whether it has been an impromptu text message or even sometimes at night, I
know she will grab my hand, and sometimes no words are spoken.
Julie Massey:
Well, I think I would tell another couple to start with just a daily devotional.
Somebody gave us one as a wedding gift, and it was awkward, and you open it
up and say, “What are we supposed to do?” But you must start somewhere.

You are not going to get to that comfortable part in prayer unless you start
somewhere. That is how it happened with our kids too—you just have to start,
and God's going to take care of the rest. So, whether it is just saying Hail Mary
together, a rosary, a devotional, or going to mass together. Like you said,
there have been times when there was more time to pray and then times
where it might be just a minute, but just make it a habit.
Fr. Josh:
Both are great too because it is imitation of Jesus. Jesus Christ is the model for
prayer. He is the one that we are looking at. Jesus Christ himself said rote
prayers with his community. As a faithful Jew, he would have done rote
prayers. Jesus Christ taught the Apostles the Lord's prayer, but then Jesus
Christ also prayed spontaneous prayers like in John 17, when He did his
Priestly prayers to the Father. This was His deep prayer from the heart, when
he went to the garden, and he cried to the Father. This was a spontaneous
prayer, and he shows us that both are good. He prayed by himself, in
community, rote prayers and spontaneous prayers. They are all good, and it is
about what season are we going to be in right now as a couple, as a family, as
a person, as a disciple?
Dr. Brian Pedraza:
I love that, I love that!  That way, there are times when you can say, “Hey, let's
set up a morning coffee devotional together.” Then there are moments when
you are stressed out during the day and say, “Hey, I am going to stop and say
a prayer for you right now.” That is beautiful, but now let us do the next
overflow. Your prayer with the Lord, individually ... then it overflowed into
each other ... and now, let us do the overflow into the kids. When you are
thinking about how you are going to form your kids and teach them how to
pray, so it is not just  saying  prayers, as important as that is, but really
encountering the Holy Fire of God. What do you all do as a family? How do you
help your kids learn how to pray?
Matt Massey:
The great part about the Catholic faith for us was marriage prep. Honestly, all
the way back then I can remember Father Michael O’Brien asked us what we
were going to do, how we were going to do it, what our faith would look like in

our marriage and with our kids. That was brought up 25.5 years ago and it
planted the seeds of what our prayer would look like today. We decided then
that prayer would be a part of our life with our children, and as we have
moved through it, and as the kids have grown, it has changed. The hard part
of parenthood is letting go and letting them fly and do their thing. I would say
at younger ages it was much easier because you could just tell them, “Okay,
we're saying prayers, we're saying night prayers, we're saying grace before
we eat.” We were doing all these things. I cannot remember the little book we
used to read out of for the kids, but it was a devotional. We had those little
tools, and I felt disciplined in doing that. We had a good routine with the
children when they were young. When they were young, they even asked for
it.
Julie Massey:
One thing that we always made sure to do, because we have four children,
was to have a meal together. We have kids who play sports, we have a
daughter who was a dancer and all these things going on, so that meal
together became OUR time. I joke with Matt that that's really where we
taught them to pray as they’ve gotten older. You know, obviously, the
morning prayers and the Our Fathers when they are young. Now, I feel like
what is important is conversations, because as they are getting older, we are
still trying to teach them how to pray. Matt came up with a way, and we did
not even realize that it is like we were teaching them to pray. We would sit at
the table, and ask them, “What was the best part of your day, what was the
worst part of your day, and what are you looking forward to tomorrow or what
do you hope for tomorrow?” It seems simple, but it immediately made me
think of thankfulness, gratefulness, prayer intentions, and reflection. It was
like, in our trying to teach them how to pray, we came to understand that
prayer can be rote, which is important, but you also have to be able to have a
relationship. Prayer is a conversation.
Fr. Josh:
That is what we do in our Confirmation Sessions—we all tell God what we are
thankful for, and then you ask who we should we be praying for. We all go
around and, in doing this, you are also making it a very normal practice for
high school students as well.
Julie Massey:

It also gave us an insight into what was going on in their lives. Sometimes
when they get to be teenagers, you do not really know, but if they told us that
the worst part of their day was that they were in football practice and they did
not make the catch or something did not go right, then we knew about their
day, through the prayer. It is prayerful but also gives us guidance as parents.
Matt Massey:
This also gave them an army behind them. It was no longer just Jules and I; it
was even their brothers and sisters praying for them as well.
Julie Massey:
Yes, and then even asking them about it, you know the next day. How was the
practice? Was it better?
Dr. Pedraza:
I love that because it makes the reflection and the conversation intentional. I
think it is so easy, right, when you have a kid who just comes back from
practice. It’s like, you ask them, “Hey, how is practice?”  Their response is
“It’s fine.” But when you are sitting down together, there is something about
the dinner table where we are just going to have to be in each other's
presence and everybody must do it. “Let me think back to what was good
today? What did I not like? What am I looking forward to?” Everybody is doing
it.  There is more of an opportunity to share, and people are going to open
their hearts a little bit more. That is good food for thought, especially when
you do a nighttime prayer. You can pull in these things that people have
already talked about.
What does nighttime prayer look like for you? What do you do? how do you do
that with your family?
Matt Massey:
Again, it is an evolution. You know, I travel a lot, and I am gone every week for
work. So now, it is Facetime, and my youngest is the best at it. She keeps me
disciplined. It is interesting how the roles reverse. I could be in an airport, on
the road, in a restaurant, and sure enough, she Facetimes and says, “Hey, I’m
getting ready to go to bed, so can we chat and say a prayer” So it has evolved.
Julie Massey:

We have a son who is 22, and he lives in New Orleans. Another son who is 20
and lives on his own. We have a daughter about to go to LSU. So we do not
have a whole lot of kids left at home. Often it is just Addison, in bed and saying
an ending prayer for the day. But it has been interesting, as they have become
teenagers, trying to figure out how to keep doing this. You know, they get a
little embarrassed about prayer and things as they get older. I wish I could tell
you that they call every day and pray with me. Obviously, things are not that
way. Sometimes there is the awkward prayer where I'm in the car with my
daughter about to drop her off for high school, and she is stressed, and she
just wants to get out of the car. I just want to say a prayer with her, but she is
going to think that is weird and she's not going to want to do this, but I'm
going to make this happen. I have to hold on to that deep faith and knowledge
that this is what she needs.
I am like, Morgan, “let's just say a quick prayer in the car.” I grabbed her
hand, and I said a prayer, and I know that it helps. Sometimes you have to
fight through those awkward points, as a parent with older kids.
Fr. Josh:
You are constantly learning your kids. For me, even as a priest, right? Being
vulnerable, at every assignment I get as a priest, when I move to a new place,
a new community, my prayer in the beginning is always off because it is a new
environment. It takes me a few months to get back into a regular rhythm and
routine. With kids who are all different ages, they are constantly changing
because they are little kids, then they are at different schools, environments,
working, playing sports, dating, and college. You are constantly trying to
learn how can I now walk with this new person, in a sense. You, as a couple,
you are not the same two people that you were when you first met in college.
You  change,  and  you  grow,   so  you  are   also  learning  each  other  and
yourselves. We are always evolving, and I think, to give our parents at home
and our peers grace. Be reverent with yourself because we are in constant
flux and to be okay with learning again, learning again, and starting over
again.
Matt Massey: Grace is a perfect word, because even as we prepared for this,
when we were asked—and it is a great honor—but then once that sinks in and
you go, “Oh, my gosh, people are going to watch it. Hopefully, they can take
something from it.”

Julie Massey:
We are all imperfect, and we need to give not only others grace, but ourselves
to do what needs to be done. Thinking that holiness looks like perfection or
me on a pedestal—we are just going into the mess. That is what we really are
about. I think other people do things better or other people know how to get
their kids to say the rosary every day. I started thinking of all the things that
we missed, you know. Then, what did Morgan say? We are just sitting around
the table, she's eating her cereal, and Matt asks her, “What has mom taught
you about prayer? What did we do growing up?” She says, “You know, we
would sit in the car, and you would take that prayer book, and you would
throw it in the back seat and say, ‘Jack, read the prayer.’ Or you would show
us these videos.” We would show Mathew Kelly videos during Lent on my
phone on the way to school, and it was really good for me to hear what
Morgan said, that they were paying attention.
Fr. Josh:
We want to have a takeaway for every episode. I think the takeaway that our
families can do this month, what we have learned from y'all, is to do prayer at
the dinner table. This month, for the entire month, try to have a meal
together, breakfast, lunch, or dinner. If you cannot do a meal, pick a certain
time every day that you all can sit and share a little about your day.
Afterwards, share what your needs are and what you want to pray for. Then,
after everyone goes around and shares their intention, do two things: if
someone feels comfortable praying a spontaneous prayer, pray a spontaneous
prayer. And then someone else ends with the Hail Mary or another prayer.
Every day this month, we are going to do this! It has been a real blessing
having y'all. Thank you. Thank you. Love y'all so much.

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